Here are some statements from the text. Read them through quickly...
- A true war story is never moral.
- As a first rule of thumb, therefore, you can tell a true war story by its absolute and uncompromising allegiance to obscenity and evil.
- You can tell a true war story if it embarrasses you.
- In any war story, but especially a true one, it's difficult to separate what happened from what seemed to happen.
- In many cases a true war story cannot be believed.
- You can tell a true war story by the way it never seems to end.
- In a true war story, if there's a moral at all, it's like the thread that makes the cloth. You can't tease it out. You can't extract the meaning without unravelling the deeper meaning.
- War is hell.
- War is hell, but that's not the half of it, because war is also mystery and terror and adventure and courage and discovery and holiness and pity and despair and longing and love. War is nasty; war is fun. War is thrilling; war is drudgery. War makes you a man; war makes you dead.
- The truths are contradictory.
- There is no clairity.
- In war you lose your sense of the definite, hence your sense of truth itself, and therefore it's safe to say that in a true war story nothing is ever absolutely true.
- Often in a true war story there is not even a point, or else that point doesn't hit you until twenty years later....
Does it make us wrestle with the way the book is written as fiction/ non-fiction? Do we wrestle with a memoir, memory, hindsight, time and space? Is it truth or something else?
Does the deeper meaning count as the truth in a true war story? What if there is no point? What if something just... happened? Or something like it.... just happened?
This is a book, a series of interwoven stories, that demands of me.
It demands that I work for answers that may not exist, but yet I still need to struggle to find satisfaction, to find the point, to find understanding>
It this what war demands too???
Respond in your own fashion.
I think that the harder you search for meaning and understanding of the truth, the further away you get from it. The harder you search, the more obscure and abstract it becomes; almost intangible.
ReplyDeleteI have to take TO's stories and put myself right there in the action. Empathizing with the characters in every story; I decipher and decode their reactions to certain situations and reflect with my own personal opinion. This, essentially, is weeding out the truth from non-truth. We cannot know definitively whether or not every written word in TO's story is truth. I wish it were the case, but it's prevalently not. Unless we specifically ask TO about every individual circumstance, I think we need to take these stories with a grain of salt and realize they were ultimately created to entertain more than inform.
I agree with Scott's response in that the further we search for truth, the further we find ourselves from it. I think the more we pick "truth" apart, the more unclear it becomes.
ReplyDeleteSomeone once told me "real life is weirder than fiction." I completely believe this. If we speculate what things may be fiction verses truth, guaranteed no matter how bizarre the fiction seems, something even more bizarre has happened in real life. How life plays out and the affects it has on people could never be documented, exactly. We have to know that even as TO tells his story, whether at times it's believable or not, we will never quite know the affects it had on him or the people he writes about.
I once read a novel that was referenced as a real-life novel. The author interviewed her mother who told of her mother's life. In order for the author to write a story about her grandmother, she had to fill in plausible details since there were pieces of the timeline missing. Knowing this, I too questioned what was truth and what wasn't, but I knew that even if some of the events didn’t actually happen to her grandmother, they had to of happened to someone.
@Scott... I don't know if entertainment is more the purpose. I guess you'd have to define entertainment for me! At any rate, I find that as I read and think, as I read what you all post and as I talk about episodes... well, I am 'drilling down' into the experience of war. It is so complex and not like anything I have any experience of, so for me TO is informing me or teaching me how hard it is to engage in war and come to some kind of terms with that engagement.
ReplyDeleteI think that telling the truth is the hardest thing to do. Especially in times of war, when not so pleasant things are happening. I’m not sure you will ever find a story that is written down that is completely true. Even when we think we are telling just the facts, our own personal feelings and interpretations of what happened will affect how we tell a story.
ReplyDeleteI guess I just accept the fact that stories veer from the truth. Even two people who saw the same thing would tell the story different. I think telling the “truth” is a lot harder than we give it credit.
Kari B loved "real life is weirder than fiction."- says a lot about how humans are if you believe that.
I think it’s more about getting the feeling across. How did he feel while he was in the war? How did he feel when certain situations occurred? How does he feel looking back? How did he perceive the war? I think these are the important questions of the book. Sometimes you can’t really get the point across with reality. Sometimes you have to embellish the story to make the readers really understand what it was like.
ReplyDeleteThe story about the baby water buffalo could have been a metaphor explaining what was felt about Curt Lemons death. How his death didn’t make any sense. How cruel the war was. Maybe I simply don’t want to believe that that sort of thing could happen (it very well could have) so I chose to see it as a metaphor.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that maybe TO wanted us to really feel what he felt. The whole truth wouldn’t have been enough so he found a way to make us feel the truth. At first the thought of the book being only partial truths did bother me. Now I try to understand how his writing is making me feel.
I have been wrestling with this same thought. For me I just realized the book was true for the longest time. I thought that every story was true until I started reading some of the interesting quotes that are mentioned above, throughout the book.
ReplyDeleteI think that stories are exaggerated my some people. The soldiers may have told some stories in more in depth way as to seem tough or cooler to other soldiers. Do you think that this is why some of these stories just seem over the top? I have never heard war stories and so this is a hard idea for me to grasp. Are they telling the truth or not? I don't think that anyone could know for sure unless you are the person telling the story and recalling the events that happened. This book is interesting to me because it gives me the opportunity to hear some war stories. It opens my mind up to what happens in tough situations at war. I wonder if these situations happen in todays war also. Do the men over seas experience the same things as the men in this book do?
I think I would agree with Jessie. I think TO exaggerates the stories to give us the intense feeling that they felt at that time. Being a reader myself, if something has not happened to me than I would empathize less than if it had happened to me. What is truth? I'm around the same lines with Kamie. Your truth can be different then my truth, it depends how one views the situation. When people argue, they both think they are telling the truth-so who is it? Unless there is hard core evidence then both of them are right. People interpret things differently. I personally think that TO is trying to do a combination of things. I think he is trying to entertain us-I say this because if your not being entertained your not going to stick with reading the entire book-I know I wouldn't and I figure TO would want to entertain us so we do read his book and recommend it to others. The other reason is to inform us, teach us about war, what it is about, the people that are invloved in the war and what they go through. He is giving us insight into what war is all about. The ups and the downs, friendhips, love, etc. All the emotions! I say don't worry whether its fact or fiction. Just read, learn and enjoy! :)
ReplyDeleteI think I would agree with Jessie. I think TO exaggerates the stories to give us the intense feeling that they felt at that time. Being a reader myself, if something has not happened to me than I would empathize less than if it had happened to me. What is truth? I'm around the same lines with Kamie. Your truth can be different then my truth, it depends how one views the situation. When people argue, they both think they are telling the truth-so who is it? Unless there is hard core evidence then both of them are right. People interpret things differently. I personally think that TO is trying to do a combination of things. I think he is trying to entertain us-I say this because if your not being entertained your not going to stick with reading the entire book-I know I wouldn't and I figure TO would want to entertain us so we do read his book and recommend it to others. The other reason is to inform us, teach us about war, what it is about, the people that are invloved in the war and what they go through. He is giving us insight into what war is all about. The ups and the downs, friendhips, love, etc. All the emotions! I say don't worry whether its fact or fiction. Just read, learn and enjoy! :)
ReplyDeleteI'm a very literal person, so as I have been reading I have taken the stories and considered them to be factual. As I realize there are parts of the stories that are fiction, I became frustrated because I wanted to know what really happened so I could fill my curiosity and sort out my feelings about the events that occurred. I find it more difficult to analyze an event or story once I know it's fiction. I'm a firm believer that one's reality is based on one's perspective. This mindset drives me to want to know the truth and not just a perspective from an individual regarding an event. Yet at the same time I realize that there are so many issues about war I will never understand even if I knew all the facts. It's this realization that helps me deal with understanding these stories. I want to know as much truth as possible, but I can still learn from the fictional stories. I believe that the truth intrigues and helps the reader understand the situation or setting better than a fictional story, however, I also believe that values and morals can also be taught through fictional stories that are based on the truth or not.
ReplyDeleteThis was very interesting posting for one good reason. I have never really had a hard time relating to what is or what is not truth. Also, it has never really bothered me to care how much is truth versus how much is not truth. I have a read a lot or war stories, because my friends were obsessed in high school with them, and I have come to realize, especially with war stories, that what I am reading is a perspective of what happened.
ReplyDeleteIn all the stories, there is a core truth, which for TO's book is, Vietnam happened, he was in it, people died, people changed. There might be more, which I am sure there is, none the less, there is a core truth that the rest revolves around. As I have been reading this book, I realized that, more and more, I relate it to Kurt Vonnegut's book, Slaughterhouse-Five. If one wants the challenge to really identify truth from fiction, then read that. The core truth of that book is that Vonnegut was in Dresden when it was fire-bombed, during WWII, which utterly destroyed the town. The second core truth was that Vonnegut and his troop survived by staying in a Slaughterhouse, numbered with a five. However, all the other things in the book seemed to be how he perceived the war.
Similar to Vonnegut, O'brian is telling his story through his perspective and how he relates to the experiences he and his comrades went through. Who are we to say what is true and what isn't? I wasn't there, all I know is that the war happened and it most likely sucked. Another thing I think about and ask myself, If I was there, how would I portray my experiences? Would I have to relate it to other experiences in my life? What part of the elephant would is TO interpreting? (story of the the blind men and the elephant, don't know it, look it up). It is obvious that he is portraying a part of the war, how does TO's experiences differ or are similar to other authors that were there?
I would have to go back to Scott's comment and agree with him, the more you pick at truth the further you get away from it. I believe that often times people who are looking for truth tend to be looking for what they want to hear rather than what is. Truth in a story is the perspective and feelings of the narrorator. I believe that TO's stories are true to him, however to others there they may be exaggerated or seen differently. Do you think the only way to "find" the truth would be to listen to everyones story of one situation and pick out the common factors?
ReplyDeleteWhen I read your statement, Russell, “In all the stories, there is a core truth…,” I thought about the picture book story Where the Wild Things Are, by Maurice Sendak. That is an obviously fictional story, but there is a feeling of truth in it. I have seen the truth of this mischief and imagination in my own children. Yet, it doesn’t seem to matter in this story that the line of truth and fiction are blurred. However, TO’s story is significantly different. The repercussions behind the truths of his story are much stronger. They pull at the morality of mankind. There are some stories that you do not want to accept, but if you are to believe TO, these are the stories that are probably true. I think the reality of this book is that the blur of fiction and non-fiction is just as much a part of war as the tangible things they carried—“There is no clarity.” If that is true for those who have experienced war, why should it be any different for those who read about it?
ReplyDeleteWhen I read through these pages, I struggled. All of what TO says in this book serves a purpose, I know. He chooses his words and stories deliberately. I am just struggling with what is true and what is not. I am sure as I continue reading more will make sense.
ReplyDeleteThe first story TO wrote about how Lemon died, I couldn't actually picture what was being described. I knew there was missing information. As I read on, the same story about Lemon's death got more and more detailed. It got closer to the truth. I love how I could feel TO's struggle as he wrote it. I love how I can relate to this fashion of storytelling. The first time I tell a story some details get left out. The next time I tell the story, things come out that I was too afraid to say before. This pulled me into the story even more!
I think struggling is part of reading in depth. This is the first time I've blogged about a book. It's really the first time I've put into words my feelings about an author's presentation of truths.
ReplyDeleteI really think that most people that have been affected by violence have trouble sorting it out themselves. Communicating details and facts may even change over time. I believe the truth of what really happens in violent times can be very personal. Events are often added, deleted, or modified to make it more palatable or dramatic for the reader.
If an author can explain truth in such a way that a reader can not only comprehend but be emotionally connected to it; it is brilliant.
After all, isn't truth interpreted individually?
In combat all that is asked of the soldiers is contradictory, most likely, to how they were raised to believe-all that is moral. So, does the truth really matter and for survival purposes should they look at it as the truth. Its the ugly truth, these guys are waking every morning wondering if this is their day to die and how it will be. I would imagine living like this, or having had lived like this, warrants a blacking out of some sort. Selective memory so that simply maintaining can happen.
ReplyDeleteI am a firm believer of everything happening for a reason.
Yet, when it comes to a terminally ill child, acts of war, and other brutal realities of our world, I question my belief. its all too gut wrenching, great pain that changes a person entirely.
"It comes down to gut instinct, a true war story if truly told, makes the stomach believe"
~TO
I think that the thing I struggle with is, events like the ones that happen in the book, do and have actually happened. Maybe not exactly like it but horrible, messed up things happen daily, all over the world. I don't have to know if their fiction or non-fiction to grasp it. I do know that it happens. Even when the characters have crushes, kills, losses, anger, happiness, love, sorrow, it's all apart of life. Especially apart of a life in war.
ReplyDeleteI think you make sense of something that is fiction and non-fiction, because it can be all real. Sure, stories can be exaggerated or stretched from truth, but most likely, that story has happened to someone else as it was told.
When I read these stories I struggle with the same thing; whether or not these stories are truthful. Does the deeper meaning count as the truth in a true war story? That got me to thinking about every little detail in these stories that we’ve read. As I try to recall them I found myself asking questions about the smallest things, like “did he really shoot the water buffalo THAT many times? Or were those last few shots necessary to put into writing?” It all made me think of the fact that it’s a horrible story, yes, but the deeper message, or meaning, is still there. Do all of the little details really matter in every story? I think that the underlying, sometimes obvious, message of the story serves as the truth, regardless of whether or not we knit pick the details.
ReplyDeleteI think that I don't want to believe it is true, Because than I have to admit that these atrocities really do exist in the world.(I enjoy living in my happy bubble.) That these things really happened to real people and that they were able to survive. If it were pure fiction then I could continue live in my happy bubble and believe that the world is a happy peaceful place.
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